She does appreciate that he wants to do this right. Not that she thought he’d be trying to cut corners. It’s more...well, her total lack of experience contrasted against his years of training. Meeting in the middle is going to be a unique challenge. And she can tell that he’s taking his safety measures seriously. She can’t help but smile a little when he reinforces the alternative to a tap out. “I promise I’ll stop if I need to,” she reassures him.
There’s a moment’s indecision when he indicates they’ll begin when she’s ready. For a second, Karen thinks he means that she should...rush him or something, which truly doesn’t make sense. It’s just his posture as he finishes his own stretching, and she can’t help but laugh a little. It’s a quick loosening of nerves.
“I’m ready.” As she’ll ever be. Even when she doesn’t know what to expect, she’s always willing to try.
No, he's not going to jump her out of the blue. She can at least rest assured on that. The more comfortable she gets the more intense they'll be able to get, though day one is a little soon for that. It's a gradual process, it'll take more than a single night of practice for her to master the skills he wants to teach her. That said, every time they work at it hopefully she'll grow in confidence and have more tools at her disposal to pull from if worst comes to worst.
Matt tilts his head like a confused puppy at the laugh — he cant place what inspired it. Maybe he doesn't need to know. "Start by grabbing me." After all his concerns about her tapping out if she needs to, she might be surprised that she's the one doing the choking — though, not for long. Once he explains the technique they'll switch.
"Just placing your hands on my neck is fine." Before Karen genuinely tries to choke him out, it's probably good to mention that.
Anything she's learned previously has been much less formal. Or well - maybe formal isn't the right word, because there's certainly some safety considerations when you're handling firearms. But anything else has just been quick and spur of the moment, albeit similarly rooted in necessity. If she were the type to believe in karma, she'd wonder what it was she'd done in a past life.
The instruction to grab him leaves a lot of room for interpretation, and she's taking a moment to decide what that means when he clarifies. Like, maybe she'll grab an arm and a shoulder? But no. The neck makes more sense.
She can't help but smile at the way he elaborates. "Did you think I was really going to try to choke you?" she asks, amused. Crossing the mat, she stands facing him and lets her hands rest carefully on his neck on either side.
There’s plenty to learn in the moment, though it’s a dangerous place to start. Matt remembers how Stick trained him, how every mistake was punished severely until he learned not to make them. Did it have the desired result? Certainly. Morally Matt does try to aim for treating people better than his mentor does, so he’ll do this the more measured way until he gets a better sense of what he’s doing, too.
He’s never tried to teach before, this is new for both of them — just in different ways.
“It has to be a tempting offer, I thought it’d be better to clarify.” Being friends with Matt Murdock does occasionally leave you wanting to strangle him; apparently even Matt himself knows that.
He uses his own hands to tighten her grip, just a little. Not enough to really obstruct his breathing, but enough to force some strain into her hands. “Were most sensitive between our finger bones,” he explains, running his fingers along the lines in her hand because without the ability to be a visual learner, he’s become quite kinetic. It’ll help her find those pressure points if she has a point of reference on herself. “It’ll be easier to escape if you start with a distraction, but you already know how to do that. When they’re distracted, push your thumb in that spot I showed you, grab a finger and—“ he curls all his fingers around one of her pointer fingers and twists and pulls downward to extend her arm out and pull her off balance, all in one motion.
It’s sudden and probably a little uncomfortable. That said, Matt figures good for her to get a hint of the sensation she’s trying to replicate. He lets go and offers, “I can show you a little slower.”
Karen can’t help but laugh a little when he calls it a tempting offer. He’s not wrong. And in fairness, it’s been a while since the thought has crossed her mind. “Well, lucky for you I’m not the strangling type,” she answers with a smile. Door slamming and volubly speaking her mind are certainly on the table, however.
She’s a little wary and tense as he adjusts her grip, but she’s raptly paying attention as he runs his fingers over her hand and explains what he’s doing. Even though she’s pretty sure she knows what’s coming, it still takes her by surprise, and she lets out a startled sound as he pulls her arm to the side and she has to side step to keep her balance.
“Well, I can see how that would come in handy,” she admits, and he can probably hear the smile in her voice. “Yeah, show me one more time.” She pays attention to the positioning of his hand and the way her arm turns when he moves it off, and then gives her head a nod. There’s nothing to do but try. Her mouth curls in amused little half smile. “I guess it’s your turn to choke me?”
In her defense, he is very good at what he does. There's a reason he's survived Daredeviling for so long, when the odds of one man against all the monsters in Hell's Kitchen does seem like a losing battle. As she learns, she'll have to take it slow, and he knows that. Still, how can you strive toward a goal you don't understand?
"That's the idea." To give her things that will help her, that will be useful in multiple situations. Like a toolbox that she can pull from if the situation warrants it. As much as he hopes it won't, practically he knows her and her work well enough that he can guess that it will. He can't protect her if he's not with her (she doesn't want him to protect her, period, but he will if he can), so she needs to be able to protect herself.
He can sense the hint of her smile in her voice, and shakes his head with a half laugh. "I guess so." Turns out, Matt is one for chokeholds, though he's absolutely never wanted to have Karen in one. It's for a good cause, and his grip is hardly threatening. "Start slow," he directs gently.
“Yep,” Karen agrees when he instructs her to start slow. There’s a look of serious concentration on her face as she adjusts her stance. She won’t have time to center her balance in a real serious situation, but at least she can take it steady, one step at a time while they practice. “You know I don’t usually get choked from the front,” she informs him, a half-hearted attempt at levity. Her mouth quirks in a half smile as she looks up at him.
Her hands trace up over his forearms, keeping one hand there as she maneuvers the other to take his fingers the way he demonstrated. It’s a near enough thing as she goes to pull them off, but not – quite there. She stops halfway through, shaking her head as she releases his hand. “No, not quite. Put your hand back.”
When he complies, she moves her hand back into place to try the move again, gripping carefully as she pulls his arm down and away. Her face lights up with a grin. “There we go!”
"We can try from behind next," Matt muses mildly, amused despite himself because there's honestly no way to phrase that without it sounding a little dirty. He means it though, he'll teach her a few different grabs just in case any future assailants try to mix it up. The best preparation he can give her is to give her is to give her techniques that were as varied as possible. The pressure points were consistent, the techniques followed similar rules. Once she had all the pieces she could put them together any way she wanted.
Matt hasn't had a whole lot of students in self defense, so he has no idea how common it is to correct your instructor when you felt you didn't do it quite right. Still, it seems very Karen to not be satisfied and want to go back and try again before she's even finished her first attempt. He obliges, because he figures it's more important for her to find the technique than earn a hard learned lesson that she might not always get the grip she wants on an attacker.
The second time she finds the purchase she wants, and he can't quite help but let go; that's the whole point, and he's about as pleased by her success as she is. "Good," Matt tells her, and he means it. It might be slow, but they can work on that. Understanding the technique is more important, now. "We'll work on faster. If they have you with both hands, you can do it two handed, though getting rid of one might leave them in enough pain that they'll let go with the other."
If she pulled down hard and fast enough, she'd be dislocating some fingers, which really tended to distract a person.
Karen huffs out a breath that’s almost a laugh at the way he phrases that, rolling her eyes fondly. There’s really no better way to say it. And she appreciates that there’s a bit of joking going on while they practice. She’s pretty sure that her nerves would through the roof otherwise. It’s a very low stress situation – she trusts Matt – but it’s the implication of why she’s learning it.
There’s no missing the swell of triumphant pride when she successfully dislodges his grasp. She lets go of his hand so that he can reposition himself where he wants to go for whatever comes next. She’s listening attentively as he talks, nodding along. It’s obvious how it could be useful to yank both hands off at once. But it’s just as obvious that it might not always be necessary. You get one hand off, you’ve already opened up your airway.
“You could teach a class.” She’s only half joking. “Daredevil Defense Demonstrations.” He’d never have time for it with everything else he has going on, but it’s half joke and half compliment. He’s off to a good start with his patient, slow paced instruction.
It does do a lot to lighten the air, to be able to make jokes. It's a little uncomfortable to think about why exactly Karen needs to know these sort of releases and just about as uncomfortable to think about how Matt knows how to perform them in the first place. A few jokes here and there to ease the ache does a world of good.
He doesn't grab her again right away, shaking off the ache in his hand. It's a good sort of ache, one that tells him Karen is learning and could probably do worse to someone that deserves it. And truth be told, Matt has the oddest relationship with pain. Sometimes he finds it almost satisfying.
"Something to keep in mind if the whole law career thing doesn't work out." If he wasn't so secretive about what he could do, Matt would likely even enjoy teaching people to protect themselves. It was a way to help people help themselves, and for all his flaws Matt does want to protect people. "Let's try it a couple more times with one hand and move to two."
While they can't work endlessly, getting a good understanding of a couple releases would be a good start for a night.
Karen watches as Matt shakes off his hand. He doesn't seem to be in the kind of pain where he needs to stop. Which is fortunate, because she would have felt like an ass if she managed to hurt him. The danger of practicing with amateurs. "I don't think you're in much danger of that," she points out with a half smile. The bigger danger would be in falling down the Daredevil rabbit hole and losing track of the rest of his life.
She nods her head at his suggest. "I'm ready." It's still a little slow going, but her movements grow more confident as she dislodges his hand. When he puts both hands on her neck, however, she's a little flummoxed by the mechanics of it. And a little amused. "It's like you went for my shoulders to start dancing and missed," she mutters with a quick laugh.
This is Matt we are talking about, Karen. Suffice to say he's always been talented at working through the pain. He'd rather feel the ache, know that she's got the technique, than have her risk not having it right if she ever did have to use it. It's certainly not bad enough that he thinks they need to stop, but then again, that's a pretty low bar...
He laughs, a little breathless, at her joke. She's right, having a sense of humor about it does make it less awkward. "I promise you I'm a better dancer than this." He doesn't dance often, granted, though when he does, he's never choked a woman on accident. "Think of it one hand at a time. And it's easier if you surprise your attacker before you try to grab them, otherwise it's a battle of strength."
“I’m not sure I believe you on that one,” Karen answers, though it’s clear by her tone that she’s just teasing him. She can absolutely see how he’d hold his own on the dance floor – good balance, quick reflexes. There are worse places to start.
Her hands rest on his forearms, and there’s a notable pause as she digests his advice. There’s a lot of different ways you could surprise someone. Especially when they’re in your face and trying to choke you. “Well the first thing that comes to mind is a head butt and obviously I don’t want to do that to you, so.” Lifting her leg, she places her heel on top of his foot – she has no intention of stepping on his foot either. As she’s moving her foot back, she slides her hands up so she can yank herself free again, one hand at a time.
He appreciates her reciting her thoughts and ideas, it gives him a chance to respond to them. Help her have an idea of which might be better in a life-or-death situation. "A headbutt is like to daze you as much as it dazes them. Keep that for a last ditch effort." That said, Matt has totally done it in a pinch... maybe he should teach her a bit about meditation and centering her breath. It might help if she's going to pull a move like that, but it's more fiddly than simple hand to hand.
"Good. Go for the middle of the foot, just in case they've got something steel toed." He approves of her logic, though it's not surprising to Matt that Karen is clever and thoughtful. He knew that about her almost as soon as he met her. She manages the removal, slower than onehanded, but that's to be expected. He nods his approval, and instead of just grabbing her again, he instructs, "Hold still."
He ducks a little to press two fingers behind her knee. "You can put your heel here," he explains, pushing slightly to make her knee bend. "And use that to sweep them. It might wind you a little to land on top of them, but it'll wind them worse." He pulls back, and his eyebrow tucks just a little. "I'd show you, but I think it'd be easier just to try it."
Karen’s nothing if not determined. It’s an important skill for her to have, and she appreciates him taking the time to teach her. She nods and changes where her heel is on his foot, adjusting to his advice as he gives it. She doesn’t particularly enjoy being caught by surprise. The next time she finds herself in a tight corner, she’s not going to stay in it.
One of her brows quirks when he pushes on the back of her knee, her leg bending, though she manages to catch her footing. It’s a move she’s seen before, but not one she ever would have thought to try on her own. “Define easier,” she remarks, a hint of wry amusement in her voice. She’s not entirely convinced that they’re going to go down easy, but she trusts him to navigate the fall so neither of them end up with broken bones.
“Okay. Let’s give this a shot. You ready?” She waits for him to get into position, and braces her hands on his shoulders, since she’s not entirely sure how this is going to go. She shifts her weight, bringing her foot around to nudge his knee out from behind. Perhaps predictably – they go down like a tower of cards and she lands on top of him with a gasp. It’s quickly followed by a laugh. “Are you okay?”
Well, since she asked... "It's something you have to find for yourself, in my experience. I already know where it is, there's only so much preforming it on you could teach you." He thinks she'd be better served working through it. It might take a little bit of fiddling, but the more she tries it the easier it'll go.
It does not at all dawn on him that is not remotely what she means. As far as falling down goes, Karen has no need to worry. Matt is already great at that!
"I'm ready," he agrees, rather wryly amused that she asked in the first place. It's thoughtful, though the fact he asked her to sweep him should be pretty good indication that he's prepared for it. There are some drops and rolls that are easy to brace for, reduce the impact. There's not a ton that he can do on this one, though, expecting it does mean he can control his breathing and the reaction to the impact.
"Yes," Matt mumbles with a laugh, breathless from the landing though more or less unharmed. "If you ever do this out in the field, I hope you won't have the gut instinct of worrying about your attacker." He's half teasing her, and half reminding her that she doesn't have to worry about apologizing for doing what they're here to do.
As far as Karen is concerned, there’s ready and there’s ready. It could also just be that she’s new to this whole self defense training thing. It’s a little different when you practice with a gun. Point, shoot, shatter target, retreat. Cans and plates and paper don’t tend to complain too much. It’s another thing entirely when it’s a person, but she’s never hesitated to pull the trigger when she has to. She’ll learn the same on the mats, eventually.
“Typically the people attacking me aren’t my friends,” she points out, not bothering to hide her amusement at his admonishment. Typically. There’s been a time or...three...that she’s agreed to let Frank pretend to take her hostage. Which is different. That’s all for show. No actual harm is coming her way in that situation.
Propping herself up on one arm, she makes a face that she knows she can’t see, all wrinkled nose mirth. “Do I just hope once we’re down here that the attacker is polite enough to lay there and make jokes?” she asks. It’s good natured but pointed.
"Haven't pushed Foggy far enough, I take it." He's teasing, the worst Foggy could attack someone with is an extremely provoking guilt trip. He would Not be impressed by Karen playing hostage for Frank Castle, though even Matt has to more or less admit that he doesn't think Karen is in any danger around him. Begrudgingly admitting that is never going to be the same as approving, though.
She's got a point, too. Matt sits up, ruffling his hair that has gotten a little damp from sweat and it just leaves it looking kind of ridiculous. "If it's Foggy attacking you, sure. The rest, maybe not. Day one is a little soon to be trying to fight against you, but we'll get there."
All the tips in isolation wouldn't be quite as helpful as putting them into action, as true to life as they can accomplish. She is right that he could fight her more. Matt has sparred and then some with Elektra, he's more than capable of it... though he doesn't have any interest in pushing as hard with Karen.
“You’ve ensured his tolerance level for nonsense is pretty high,” Karen reminds him with a grin. Mostly what she gets from Foggy are treaties to be careful when she’s haring off after her latest story. Which is fair. She knows she throws herself in headfirst. It’s why she’s hear.
She climbs off of Matt as he sits up, watching with a fond look as he ruffles his hair up. It makes him look a little bit like a cockatoo. Part of her is tempted to smooth it down for him, but she’s not entirely sure what to do with that impulse other than sit on it.
There’s a thoughtful moment of silence as she looks across the mat at him, shifting so she’s sitting with her legs stretched out in front of her. She appreciates him taking the time to help her, show her the moves one at a time. She is absolutely not in a rush. But sometimes she wonders if he realizes she’s not as breakable as he might think. “Well, you’re definitely the most polite person I’ve ever knocked to the floor,” she says.
She's probably right — he considers her as far more fragile than
she's ever considered herself. He doesn't want this process to end up
hurting her and he certainly doesn't want to be the one doing the hurting.
That said, mostly it's a bared teeth determination to teach the opposite of
how he was taught. Stick might have gotten results, but he'd also been
training a blind child for a magical war. Results are important, but they
didn't need to be beaten in either.
It's possible that both of them are too far of an extreme. Karen is a
little too confident in how much pain she's prepared to take. Matt is too
reluctant to ever subject her to any, despite the fact it's a part of her
job and just her life, especially considering her connection to him.
"I'll remember to be more belligerent next time." Matt says with a muster
of a laugh. "Speaking of a next time, we might want to call it a night. You
might not realize it now, but I'll bet you'll be sore in the morning."
Karen’s mouth curls into a smile when he says he’ll be more belligerent next time. “You won’t,” she answers in good humor. It is nice that he’s so determined to do this the right way. They both have work to do: her on managing her expectations, him on recognizing that he’s not going to be the one to break her.
“I’ve got Aleve in my purse,” she informs him. It’s a staple: literally chasing down a story, a surprise kidnapping, uncomfortable shoes, breaking up a fight. She never knows what life is going to throw her. She’s not sure she would want it to be predictable.
Before getting up, she leans forward into a stretch, holding onto her toes. It’s quiet for a moment as she mulls over what she wants to say. “My life has been like this for a long time, Matt. This is a long overdue lesson.” Her head tips, and there’s a hint of amusement back in her voice when she continues, “target shooting was a good start, though.”
He has absolute capacity for belligerence. This is the guy who told someone
he "doesn't speak asshole", for example. That said, Karen probably has his
number that he won't use his talent for arguing against her. Usually when
they are at odds with each other he just agrees with her he's terrible, it
makes him so annoying to yell at!!! For Matt, it comes down to the fact he
spends enough of his time fighting and arguing. The last people on the
planet he wants to argue with are his friends.
And honestly, his friends are usually right when they accuse him of being
terrible.
Karen stretches, Matthew just leans back into the dusty mats in a rare
moment of laziness. Stretching is the better call, though Matt is rather
notorious for rarely going for the better call. "I know," he muses, a
slight hint of reluctance in his tone. It's fighting back the automatic
impulse to try and remind her that she doesn't have to do all this, and
that she doesn't have to run straight into danger, even if it's always for
a good reason. He realizes how hypocritical that reaction is, but he can't
stop feeling it, as much as he tries.
"We'll keep working. And you know you can call me if you're worried about a
situation going south." How many times has he called her when a
situation might go south? No comment. "I can't help on sharpshooting, I'm
afraid." His accuracy is not something he could easily teach her —
and he's never stopped to see if it translated to firing a gun, either.
Matt doesn't want to know.
It’s true, he is extremely annoying to yell at. He has an unerring knack for looking like the world’s saddest puppy. It really has a way of taking the wind out of her sails. Which isn’t to say that she hasn’t been game for trying a time or two. Karen’s stubborn in her own way. If something needs saying, she’ll say it.
“I know I can,” she answers. She just doesn’t want to be the person that brings other people running to fight her fights for her. She’s come a long way from the angry kid moored out in rural Vermont with a chip on her shoulder and a crack in her heart. All she wants is the opportunity to do some good with all that dogged determination she has inside of her.
Her mouth twists into a little smile at his comment about sharpshooting. “I’ve got that covered,” she promises. “I’ve been shooting targets since I was a teenager. I wouldn’t carry my gun around if I didn’t know how to use it.” Or if she wasn’t prepared to use it in a tight spot. That’s a good way to get herself shot instead.
She's been game. He remembers. He remembers her being pretty on point in
those situations, too. He has to say he's glad that they haven't argued as
much recently in the relative peace they've been trying to rebuild between
them. Matt hates arguing with Karen as much as he hates arguing with Foggy.
It's not that he can't see their points, it's just that sometimes it's ...
beyond him to agree with them. They might not like what he does and he
doesn't expect them to. Even knowing how hard it is on them he can't quite
stop. He has to do something, even if that something is on the wrong side
of the law sometimes.
One might be right in arguing it's an unhealthy addiction and it's one that
is likely to get him killed one day. Even knowing that, Matt can't quite
manage to stop.
Is it really having someone fight her battles for her if she's also
present at the battle? More like bringing an ally than sicking Daredevil on
her problems. He'd like her to be more willing to accept his help, though
considering he's never asked her along for backup, it's not as if he
doesn't understand the perspective.
"I'll keep that in mind if I need some sharpshooting." Matt only
goes for nonlethal violence, though that's not to say that someone who knew
their way around a handgun wouldn't be useful. Arguably he could just try
and coerce Frank into caring, but more than likely he just won't call
anyone, ever. This is Matt we're talking about.
“You won’t,” Karen answers with a smile. Neither of them want him calling her if he needs someone with a gun on his side. She doesn’t particularly want to hunt down criminals, and she does her best to not encourage Frank or Matt to keep at it. Not that either of them listen, but she at least says her piece. The gun’s for self defense. She uses it when she needs it.
She finishes her stretch and leans back, resting her palms on the mat as she watches him. “You know, when you say I can call if I’m worried, or if I need something...this is always what I’ve needed. You to trust that I know what I’m doing and to support me in doing it.”
It's a little bit of a tall ask, given her mixed feelings about his own particular brand of derring do. But despite the dangers of vigilantism and her general sense of disapproval, she's still not going to turn her back on him when he needs her.
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no subject
Date: 2019-08-31 02:52 am (UTC)There’s a moment’s indecision when he indicates they’ll begin when she’s ready. For a second, Karen thinks he means that she should...rush him or something, which truly doesn’t make sense. It’s just his posture as he finishes his own stretching, and she can’t help but laugh a little. It’s a quick loosening of nerves.
“I’m ready.” As she’ll ever be. Even when she doesn’t know what to expect, she’s always willing to try.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-03 01:26 am (UTC)Matt tilts his head like a confused puppy at the laugh — he cant place what inspired it. Maybe he doesn't need to know. "Start by grabbing me." After all his concerns about her tapping out if she needs to, she might be surprised that she's the one doing the choking — though, not for long. Once he explains the technique they'll switch.
"Just placing your hands on my neck is fine." Before Karen genuinely tries to choke him out, it's probably good to mention that.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-05 01:27 am (UTC)The instruction to grab him leaves a lot of room for interpretation, and she's taking a moment to decide what that means when he clarifies. Like, maybe she'll grab an arm and a shoulder? But no. The neck makes more sense.
She can't help but smile at the way he elaborates. "Did you think I was really going to try to choke you?" she asks, amused. Crossing the mat, she stands facing him and lets her hands rest carefully on his neck on either side.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-06 04:06 am (UTC)There’s plenty to learn in the moment, though it’s a dangerous place to start. Matt remembers how Stick trained him, how every mistake was punished severely until he learned not to make them. Did it have the desired result? Certainly. Morally Matt does try to aim for treating people better than his mentor does, so he’ll do this the more measured way until he gets a better sense of what he’s doing, too.
He’s never tried to teach before, this is new for both of them — just in different ways.
“It has to be a tempting offer, I thought it’d be better to clarify.” Being friends with Matt Murdock does occasionally leave you wanting to strangle him; apparently even Matt himself knows that.
He uses his own hands to tighten her grip, just a little. Not enough to really obstruct his breathing, but enough to force some strain into her hands. “Were most sensitive between our finger bones,” he explains, running his fingers along the lines in her hand because without the ability to be a visual learner, he’s become quite kinetic. It’ll help her find those pressure points if she has a point of reference on herself. “It’ll be easier to escape if you start with a distraction, but you already know how to do that. When they’re distracted, push your thumb in that spot I showed you, grab a finger and—“ he curls all his fingers around one of her pointer fingers and twists and pulls downward to extend her arm out and pull her off balance, all in one motion.
It’s sudden and probably a little uncomfortable. That said, Matt figures good for her to get a hint of the sensation she’s trying to replicate. He lets go and offers, “I can show you a little slower.”
no subject
Date: 2019-09-08 01:34 pm (UTC)She’s a little wary and tense as he adjusts her grip, but she’s raptly paying attention as he runs his fingers over her hand and explains what he’s doing. Even though she’s pretty sure she knows what’s coming, it still takes her by surprise, and she lets out a startled sound as he pulls her arm to the side and she has to side step to keep her balance.
“Well, I can see how that would come in handy,” she admits, and he can probably hear the smile in her voice. “Yeah, show me one more time.” She pays attention to the positioning of his hand and the way her arm turns when he moves it off, and then gives her head a nod. There’s nothing to do but try. Her mouth curls in amused little half smile. “I guess it’s your turn to choke me?”
no subject
Date: 2019-09-11 11:49 pm (UTC)"That's the idea." To give her things that will help her, that will be useful in multiple situations. Like a toolbox that she can pull from if the situation warrants it. As much as he hopes it won't, practically he knows her and her work well enough that he can guess that it will. He can't protect her if he's not with her (she doesn't want him to protect her, period, but he will if he can), so she needs to be able to protect herself.
He can sense the hint of her smile in her voice, and shakes his head with a half laugh. "I guess so." Turns out, Matt is one for chokeholds, though he's absolutely never wanted to have Karen in one. It's for a good cause, and his grip is hardly threatening. "Start slow," he directs gently.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 01:40 am (UTC)Her hands trace up over his forearms, keeping one hand there as she maneuvers the other to take his fingers the way he demonstrated. It’s a near enough thing as she goes to pull them off, but not – quite there. She stops halfway through, shaking her head as she releases his hand. “No, not quite. Put your hand back.”
When he complies, she moves her hand back into place to try the move again, gripping carefully as she pulls his arm down and away. Her face lights up with a grin. “There we go!”
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Date: 2019-09-16 03:51 am (UTC)Matt hasn't had a whole lot of students in self defense, so he has no idea how common it is to correct your instructor when you felt you didn't do it quite right. Still, it seems very Karen to not be satisfied and want to go back and try again before she's even finished her first attempt. He obliges, because he figures it's more important for her to find the technique than earn a hard learned lesson that she might not always get the grip she wants on an attacker.
The second time she finds the purchase she wants, and he can't quite help but let go; that's the whole point, and he's about as pleased by her success as she is. "Good," Matt tells her, and he means it. It might be slow, but they can work on that. Understanding the technique is more important, now. "We'll work on faster. If they have you with both hands, you can do it two handed, though getting rid of one might leave them in enough pain that they'll let go with the other."
If she pulled down hard and fast enough, she'd be dislocating some fingers, which really tended to distract a person.
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Date: 2019-09-18 03:11 am (UTC)There’s no missing the swell of triumphant pride when she successfully dislodges his grasp. She lets go of his hand so that he can reposition himself where he wants to go for whatever comes next. She’s listening attentively as he talks, nodding along. It’s obvious how it could be useful to yank both hands off at once. But it’s just as obvious that it might not always be necessary. You get one hand off, you’ve already opened up your airway.
“You could teach a class.” She’s only half joking. “Daredevil Defense Demonstrations.” He’d never have time for it with everything else he has going on, but it’s half joke and half compliment. He’s off to a good start with his patient, slow paced instruction.
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Date: 2019-09-22 05:31 pm (UTC)He doesn't grab her again right away, shaking off the ache in his hand. It's a good sort of ache, one that tells him Karen is learning and could probably do worse to someone that deserves it. And truth be told, Matt has the oddest relationship with pain. Sometimes he finds it almost satisfying.
"Something to keep in mind if the whole law career thing doesn't work out." If he wasn't so secretive about what he could do, Matt would likely even enjoy teaching people to protect themselves. It was a way to help people help themselves, and for all his flaws Matt does want to protect people. "Let's try it a couple more times with one hand and move to two."
While they can't work endlessly, getting a good understanding of a couple releases would be a good start for a night.
my life has been stupid busy lately, i'm so sorry for the long pause!
Date: 2019-10-08 11:58 pm (UTC)She nods her head at his suggest. "I'm ready." It's still a little slow going, but her movements grow more confident as she dislodges his hand. When he puts both hands on her neck, however, she's a little flummoxed by the mechanics of it. And a little amused. "It's like you went for my shoulders to start dancing and missed," she mutters with a quick laugh.
that's ok! i understand!
Date: 2019-10-13 09:00 pm (UTC)He laughs, a little breathless, at her joke. She's right, having a sense of humor about it does make it less awkward. "I promise you I'm a better dancer than this." He doesn't dance often, granted, though when he does, he's never choked a woman on accident. "Think of it one hand at a time. And it's easier if you surprise your attacker before you try to grab them, otherwise it's a battle of strength."
<3
Date: 2019-10-17 03:17 am (UTC)Her hands rest on his forearms, and there’s a notable pause as she digests his advice. There’s a lot of different ways you could surprise someone. Especially when they’re in your face and trying to choke you. “Well the first thing that comes to mind is a head butt and obviously I don’t want to do that to you, so.” Lifting her leg, she places her heel on top of his foot – she has no intention of stepping on his foot either. As she’s moving her foot back, she slides her hands up so she can yank herself free again, one hand at a time.
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Date: 2019-10-20 11:34 pm (UTC)"Good. Go for the middle of the foot, just in case they've got something steel toed." He approves of her logic, though it's not surprising to Matt that Karen is clever and thoughtful. He knew that about her almost as soon as he met her. She manages the removal, slower than onehanded, but that's to be expected. He nods his approval, and instead of just grabbing her again, he instructs, "Hold still."
He ducks a little to press two fingers behind her knee. "You can put your heel here," he explains, pushing slightly to make her knee bend. "And use that to sweep them. It might wind you a little to land on top of them, but it'll wind them worse." He pulls back, and his eyebrow tucks just a little. "I'd show you, but I think it'd be easier just to try it."
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Date: 2019-10-26 11:17 pm (UTC)One of her brows quirks when he pushes on the back of her knee, her leg bending, though she manages to catch her footing. It’s a move she’s seen before, but not one she ever would have thought to try on her own. “Define easier,” she remarks, a hint of wry amusement in her voice. She’s not entirely convinced that they’re going to go down easy, but she trusts him to navigate the fall so neither of them end up with broken bones.
“Okay. Let’s give this a shot. You ready?” She waits for him to get into position, and braces her hands on his shoulders, since she’s not entirely sure how this is going to go. She shifts her weight, bringing her foot around to nudge his knee out from behind. Perhaps predictably – they go down like a tower of cards and she lands on top of him with a gasp. It’s quickly followed by a laugh. “Are you okay?”
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Date: 2019-11-01 03:09 am (UTC)It does not at all dawn on him that is not remotely what she means. As far as falling down goes, Karen has no need to worry. Matt is already great at that!
"I'm ready," he agrees, rather wryly amused that she asked in the first place. It's thoughtful, though the fact he asked her to sweep him should be pretty good indication that he's prepared for it. There are some drops and rolls that are easy to brace for, reduce the impact. There's not a ton that he can do on this one, though, expecting it does mean he can control his breathing and the reaction to the impact.
"Yes," Matt mumbles with a laugh, breathless from the landing though more or less unharmed. "If you ever do this out in the field, I hope you won't have the gut instinct of worrying about your attacker." He's half teasing her, and half reminding her that she doesn't have to worry about apologizing for doing what they're here to do.
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Date: 2019-11-02 02:19 am (UTC)“Typically the people attacking me aren’t my friends,” she points out, not bothering to hide her amusement at his admonishment. Typically. There’s been a time or...three...that she’s agreed to let Frank pretend to take her hostage. Which is different. That’s all for show. No actual harm is coming her way in that situation.
Propping herself up on one arm, she makes a face that she knows she can’t see, all wrinkled nose mirth. “Do I just hope once we’re down here that the attacker is polite enough to lay there and make jokes?” she asks. It’s good natured but pointed.
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Date: 2019-11-06 02:43 am (UTC)She's got a point, too. Matt sits up, ruffling his hair that has gotten a little damp from sweat and it just leaves it looking kind of ridiculous. "If it's Foggy attacking you, sure. The rest, maybe not. Day one is a little soon to be trying to fight against you, but we'll get there."
All the tips in isolation wouldn't be quite as helpful as putting them into action, as true to life as they can accomplish. She is right that he could fight her more. Matt has sparred and then some with Elektra, he's more than capable of it... though he doesn't have any interest in pushing as hard with Karen.
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Date: 2019-11-06 11:57 pm (UTC)She climbs off of Matt as he sits up, watching with a fond look as he ruffles his hair up. It makes him look a little bit like a cockatoo. Part of her is tempted to smooth it down for him, but she’s not entirely sure what to do with that impulse other than sit on it.
There’s a thoughtful moment of silence as she looks across the mat at him, shifting so she’s sitting with her legs stretched out in front of her. She appreciates him taking the time to help her, show her the moves one at a time. She is absolutely not in a rush. But sometimes she wonders if he realizes she’s not as breakable as he might think. “Well, you’re definitely the most polite person I’ve ever knocked to the floor,” she says.
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Date: 2019-11-11 04:13 am (UTC)She's probably right — he considers her as far more fragile than she's ever considered herself. He doesn't want this process to end up hurting her and he certainly doesn't want to be the one doing the hurting. That said, mostly it's a bared teeth determination to teach the opposite of how he was taught. Stick might have gotten results, but he'd also been training a blind child for a magical war. Results are important, but they didn't need to be beaten in either.
It's possible that both of them are too far of an extreme. Karen is a little too confident in how much pain she's prepared to take. Matt is too reluctant to ever subject her to any, despite the fact it's a part of her job and just her life, especially considering her connection to him.
"I'll remember to be more belligerent next time." Matt says with a muster of a laugh. "Speaking of a next time, we might want to call it a night. You might not realize it now, but I'll bet you'll be sore in the morning."
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Date: 2019-11-14 11:35 pm (UTC)“I’ve got Aleve in my purse,” she informs him. It’s a staple: literally chasing down a story, a surprise kidnapping, uncomfortable shoes, breaking up a fight. She never knows what life is going to throw her. She’s not sure she would want it to be predictable.
Before getting up, she leans forward into a stretch, holding onto her toes. It’s quiet for a moment as she mulls over what she wants to say. “My life has been like this for a long time, Matt. This is a long overdue lesson.” Her head tips, and there’s a hint of amusement back in her voice when she continues, “target shooting was a good start, though.”
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Date: 2019-11-16 06:03 pm (UTC)He has absolute capacity for belligerence. This is the guy who told someone he "doesn't speak asshole", for example. That said, Karen probably has his number that he won't use his talent for arguing against her. Usually when they are at odds with each other he just agrees with her he's terrible, it makes him so annoying to yell at!!! For Matt, it comes down to the fact he spends enough of his time fighting and arguing. The last people on the planet he wants to argue with are his friends.
And honestly, his friends are usually right when they accuse him of being terrible.
Karen stretches, Matthew just leans back into the dusty mats in a rare moment of laziness. Stretching is the better call, though Matt is rather notorious for rarely going for the better call. "I know," he muses, a slight hint of reluctance in his tone. It's fighting back the automatic impulse to try and remind her that she doesn't have to do all this, and that she doesn't have to run straight into danger, even if it's always for a good reason. He realizes how hypocritical that reaction is, but he can't stop feeling it, as much as he tries.
"We'll keep working. And you know you can call me if you're worried about a situation going south." How many times has he called her when a situation might go south? No comment. "I can't help on sharpshooting, I'm afraid." His accuracy is not something he could easily teach her — and he's never stopped to see if it translated to firing a gun, either. Matt doesn't want to know.
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Date: 2019-11-18 03:38 am (UTC)“I know I can,” she answers. She just doesn’t want to be the person that brings other people running to fight her fights for her. She’s come a long way from the angry kid moored out in rural Vermont with a chip on her shoulder and a crack in her heart. All she wants is the opportunity to do some good with all that dogged determination she has inside of her.
Her mouth twists into a little smile at his comment about sharpshooting. “I’ve got that covered,” she promises. “I’ve been shooting targets since I was a teenager. I wouldn’t carry my gun around if I didn’t know how to use it.” Or if she wasn’t prepared to use it in a tight spot. That’s a good way to get herself shot instead.
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Date: 2019-11-18 04:16 am (UTC)She's been game. He remembers. He remembers her being pretty on point in those situations, too. He has to say he's glad that they haven't argued as much recently in the relative peace they've been trying to rebuild between them. Matt hates arguing with Karen as much as he hates arguing with Foggy. It's not that he can't see their points, it's just that sometimes it's ... beyond him to agree with them. They might not like what he does and he doesn't expect them to. Even knowing how hard it is on them he can't quite stop. He has to do something, even if that something is on the wrong side of the law sometimes.
One might be right in arguing it's an unhealthy addiction and it's one that is likely to get him killed one day. Even knowing that, Matt can't quite manage to stop.
Is it really having someone fight her battles for her if she's also present at the battle? More like bringing an ally than sicking Daredevil on her problems. He'd like her to be more willing to accept his help, though considering he's never asked her along for backup, it's not as if he doesn't understand the perspective.
"I'll keep that in mind if I need some sharpshooting." Matt only goes for nonlethal violence, though that's not to say that someone who knew their way around a handgun wouldn't be useful. Arguably he could just try and coerce Frank into caring, but more than likely he just won't call anyone, ever. This is Matt we're talking about.
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Date: 2019-11-21 03:28 am (UTC)She finishes her stretch and leans back, resting her palms on the mat as she watches him. “You know, when you say I can call if I’m worried, or if I need something...this is always what I’ve needed. You to trust that I know what I’m doing and to support me in doing it.”
It's a little bit of a tall ask, given her mixed feelings about his own particular brand of derring do. But despite the dangers of vigilantism and her general sense of disapproval, she's still not going to turn her back on him when he needs her.
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From:wrap here possibly? ?
From:perfect! /scene
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